Three Short Interviews With Children’s Literature Authors

JonArno Lawson

TALI VORON-LEIDERMAN: Having published over twenty books of poetry for children and adults, teaching children’s poetry, and winning the Lion and the Unicorn Award for Excellence in North American Poetry four times, you are an expert in children’s poetry. How do you approach writing poetry for children versus for adults?

JONARNO LAWSON: What seems to work best is not thinking about the age of the reader when I have an idea, or when I come across a series of words that work well together. I may have a sense of who’s most likely to understand it when I’m part way in, but letting it take shape without interference (beyond what I think sounds good, and what makes sense to me) is the approach I try to take. And later I sort smaller works into books, and that’s when I have to decide the age (because of how books are usually marketed). But even then, it isn’t always clear. It’s like baking, though. At some point you have to fold up the corners and bake it. Otherwise you end up with an infinite tart.

TVL: Your nonsense poetry has been described as featuring “clever rhymes, whimsical images, and wordplay.” What draws you to nonsense poetry?

JAL: I like most of all when something sounds like nonsense but isn’t— when sounds and rhythms combine in an unusual but pleasing (and sometimes comical) way, and the mind almost rejects it as nonsense, but then suddenly you realize it really does make sense. A lot of poetry of the last hundred years in the Western world was written so that it couldn’t be understood easily, or by anyone, ever. As if poets (not all of them) were threatened by the fact that science (and many scientists) had become harder to understand. So to show that poetic works were equally valuable, and that poetry and poets were advancing just as quickly and surely as scientific works and scientists, it was important to make poetic works incomprehensible, too. That’s the place I’m operating from. In nonsense poems, I’m aiming to be incomprehensible, but only for a moment. I want the poem to be understood, but not immediately—only after a moment or two. If you’ve ever seen the movie The Court Jester (with Danny Kaye), Sylvia Fine wrote some remarkable bits (spoken scenes and song lyrics) that approach nonsense this way.

TVL: Your bio mentions that you are “probably best known as the author of the picture book Sidewalk Flowers.” What’s one thing that most people don’t know about you, but you wish they did?

JAL: I’m not a great (but also not a bad) artist, and I should be allowed to illustrate my own books from now on. Not because I don’t love the illustrations for my earlier books, but because I love to draw and I have my own unique way of doing it that works well with my written work. Another thing people don’t know about me is that I would be excellent at choosing out-of-print books to put back into print. If any publishers are reading this, especially wealthy publishers looking to start an im- print where great out-of-print books are made available again (sort of like what NYRB has been doing so well for a while now), I would love to direct this important work for you. Especially if you’re offering me a job with benefits and vacation time—I accept. How lucky for everyone that I’m available and willing to take this on.

TVL: In March 2025, your poetry collection Wise Up! Wise Down!: A Poetic Conversation was published. Congratulations! This collection was written with John Agard and illustrated by Satoshi Kitamura. Can you share what inspired this collection and what the collaborative process was like?

JAL: John Agard and I met at a book function in England in 2009. Our books were up for the same award—his won (mine didn’t) and he invited me out to celebrate after. I was jet-lagged and said it was up to my at-the-time small child (Saul Freedman-Lawson). I assumed Saul would say no, but Saul didn’t. So we went out and had a great time with John and his wife, Grace Nichols, and their daughter, Kalera. John and I sent each other books afterward, and we noticed we often wrote on similar themes, so he suggested collaborating at some point. Many years passed, and then he had this very specific idea where we’d find poems of ours that had to do with the same subjects and also write new ones responsively to each other. COVID slowed us down (or did it speed us up? I’m not sure). It took us a few years, and it was all done by email along with a few phone calls. It was a very useful and interesting process for me. I nearly always just write from my own head, never with anyone else. But I didn’t mind taking direction from John, and I didn’t mind when sometimes he’d even tell me what he thought the first line should be. Or what lines I should take out. He’s a real master. A brilliant poet. So is his wife. I never felt defensive, which surprised me.

TVL: What are you working on right now? Or, what is something you’re excited about right now?

JAL: Right now I’m working on what’s become a massive, sprawling project that might turn into four or even five different books. I’m working with a brilliant author, playwright, and actor named Daniel Ratthei, who’s part of the Piccolo Theater in Cottbus, Germany. So it’s another collaboration. Our subject was the German writer Arno Schirokauer when we started out, and at core, it still is, but Arno did so much fascinating work, and was part of several very fascinating circles of people, and the more we’ve researched him the more the project sprawled (not all the books will be about Arno, but he’ll be part of each of them). So stay tuned—it might still take a while, but something very beautiful will come of it all, I hope.

Poetry Foundation, “JonArno Lawson”

Enchanted Lion Books, “JonArno Lawson”

JONARNO LAWSON

is a Canadian writer who has published many books for children and adults. Most recently his research has focused on the German author Arno Schirokauer and his circle, and on telling stories with (and/or through) pictures.